January 14, 1966
(Following a “tourist” trip Satprem had to make in India for certain reasons.)
Did you feel any difference?
Between being here and being in Bangalore?
Oh, to me it was all infernal. All that is hell.
Oh, that's the effect it had on you?
Then it's all right.
Tourism and all that is hell. I did my job – not very well, but I did it.
Then it's all right.
To tell you the whole truth, that's what you said to me,1 but I wanted to know if you had felt it outwardly. I knew it almost right away. And then there was between us a different contact from the one we have here, and it expressed... what shall I call it? (laughing) A lack of adaptation.
Is it a weakness?
It was very pronounced, very pronounced. And there was in you an intensity (gesture of clenched fists), a need for things to change.
Ah, yes! It's pure hell. It's Falsehood in every detail.
Yes, that's right.
There was this sudden death of Shastri.2 To me it was obvious. Strangely enough, I was told (long ago) that they were to meet in Russia, and when I was told that, I spontaneously answered, “If he goes there, he will die.” (I never knew why, but that's how it was.) Then it went out of my mind, and this time, I was told that the conference would take place, but I didn't hear or they didn't tell me (I don't know which of the two) that it would be in Russia, and so... In between, someone met Shastri about my message3 and he answered that for him it was the expression of the truth, but... “What can I do about that? I am a small man.”4 That's what he said. After that I kept quiet, and when I was told about the conference, I thought, “We should at least get the ‘best’ out of it” – I “charged” him to the full. But I “charged” him as if he were a powerful man.... That's dangerous!5
But I knew the time at which they were in conference, and all of a sudden, in the middle of the night, I was woken up with a start by someone calling for help – it was him.
The next day, early morning, I was told he was dead. It didn't strike me as “news”! I said, “But of course! It goes without saying, that's how it is.” And it seems (I heard all the details afterwards – long afterwards, in the course of the day), it seems the going was very tough and when the talks ended in what he considered to be a success (it was obviously the “best” (!) that could happen there), he was exultant and quite happy6; then he went into his room and after a few minutes, opened the door and called for a doctor, and in no time it was over. That's probably when he called. But it was decided a very long time ago.
There was nothing to be “exultant” about! They lost what little advantage they had gained during the war.
Yes (Mother shakes her head). It seems that was the best they could conceive.
I find it sad.
No, it's the continuation of the same story.7
Yes, the continuation of the same story.... You know the impression I had when I heard of Shastri's death?... I had the impression it was a symbol, and that it was the death of the Gnome.8 The death of the Dwarfs. That it was the bottom of the pit and the end of the Age of Gnomes. And that maybe we were now going to climb up again.
Let's hope so.... For the moment, everything is in suspense.
But it [Shastri's death] was necessary. If something was to change, it was necessary.
Because he wasn't a wicked man, of course.
He was very small.
But none of those people are wicked – they are nothing.
Oh, some are perverted. But they are very small.
Did this business make any difference to your trip?
Oh, small details, all the shops were closed.... But don't you think it's really the sign of a change of direction?
How can I put it?... One hopes so.9
Yes, one hopes so.
The resistance of the forces of Falsehood has reached a climax, they are in a state of acute violence – acute.
Yes, it's glaring.
February and March are very critical months. In April (Mother makes a gesture of reversal), maybe things will take the true direction.
There. Well, I am glad that you were conscious of what you told me (!)
Oh, I was conscious of that hell every minute.
It's good, very good. You were much closer than usual. Much closer, like something physically close.
The closeness was always up above (gesture above the head), in the broad lines, but here, it was a physical closeness and the sense that... well, that a certain type of resistance was going to end, was going to fall away. So I said to myself, “That's very good, very necessary.” If the “touring” hasn't tired you too much, it's all right; that was the only drawback... (how can I put it?) that I can't say I “feared,” because I don't fear anything, but that I saw as being possible.
No, no! In a day or two, I'll be fine.
That's exactly what I wanted.
1 In the inner consciousness.
2 India's prime minister, during talks in Tashkent with Ayub Khan for the settlement of the Indo-Pakistani conflict.
3 “India must fight until India and Pakistan have once more become ONE.”
4 Italics indicate words or sentences spoken by Mother in English.
5 Shastri died of a heart attack.
6 India agreed to withdraw from a few strategic posts it had occupied in Kashmir during the recent hostilities, and Pakistan proclaimed that it would not use force to settle its disagreement with India.
7 Mother means, “The same story or the same attitude since Gandhi and Nehru.”
8 Shastri was very short.
9 Throughout this conversation, Mother appeared rather skeptical or, to say the least, reticent.